This is an asymmetry that can be attacked in EDH because there is a general sense that higher curves are more appropriate, which opens a hole for borderline "glass cannon" decks that can win before any one else even starts. only question is how long until it happens.
Just out of curiosity, how would you classify Prophet of Kruphix? So, here's the thing. that isnt found when say, a Khemba deck has a proxy jitte because at least thats an expensive card that is proxied because it ties in with the deck's theme. After that they really lose their edge. Don’t get me wrong, 85-150 is stupid expensive, but it’s not unimaginable. Your argument could be applied to every card on the banned list. -Mana Crypt is an attainable holy grail. There is no reason to do this. I mean they are only good in the first few turns. While I do think that Mana crypt is extremely powerful I don't think it's banably powerful. However, I am really glad that Lotus and the Moxen are banned, because I would be doing dirty, dirty things to get them in my 99 if they weren't. Unlike the original five Moxen, which, if legal, would be beyond the reach of basically every EDH player, Mana Crypt has a price tag that goes from $85-150.
Then, the problem you see is within the player, not mana crypt. Thus, they are less of an issue for me. The Moxen are a better comparison than Sol Ring because like Crypt they cost 0 (a 3-drop on T1 is more powerful than a 4-drop on T2 i would argue) and in the late game actually scale pretty bad and if you finished playing your opening lands and you top deck a moxen then its (lets put aside artifact shenanigan decks for just a moment) basically a basic land. Your anecdotal evidence isn't strong. It doesn't win the game outright, or reset the entire board unfairly (e.g., Coalition Victory, Upheaval, Biorhythym). New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. The person who opens with a Mana Crypt is target number one, and even the most competitive decks struggle playing archenemy against 3 other players from turn 1.
+1 for you, good sir! A lot of the cards on the ban list shouldn't be there. Mana Crypt - (G) (MC)[[cardname]] to call - New functions available! Even if you do shell out $500 for a card on the secondary market, the game creators(wizards) don't see a dime. If 3 mana (including a color) on T1 doesn't put you MILES ahead of everyone else then I don't know what will. People will just proxy anyway.
I'd like to see it banned along with Mana Crypt.
:D, According to Scryfall, Mana Crypt is currently the 5th most expensive non-RL card after Zodiac Dragon, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, and Gifts Given: https://scryfall.com/search?q=not%3Adigital+not%3Areserved+sort%3Ausd&as=checklist. SCD. Someone from the RC really said that? I beg to differ. You need to have the other oppressive card, have both survive hate/counters/etc., have something to do with whatever they provide you, etc.
These are just some personal thoughts on keeping it unbanned: -Politics limits strong early plays. If you can afford any card, just be that guy. I think the RC might want to be open to the possibility of Crypt getting reprinted someday (obviously not in Standard) and that might influence why they keep Crypt legal but the Moxen arent.
Until then, they should stay together. All point one is saying is ramp makes you a target. https://scryfall.com/search?q=not%3Adigital+not%3Areserved+sort%3Ausd&as=checklist.
Whoever draws Mana Crypt/Mox Opal/Mox Diamond/Sol Ring in their opening hand is winning. +1 for you, good sir! Mana Crypt is a "Deadeye" card, as it requires you to actually have something oppressive to play off of it, and does not deserve to be on the banlist. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If you were to ask my group if they wanted to ban it? The cumulative advantage is offset some by the "cumulative drawback" and, yes, the monetary cost. We're all adults, we all understand how hard some cards are to come by, and we're all aware of how to deal with them when they show up on the board. It doesn't wrap the format and cost is no reason to ban cards like some of the people in this thread say it is. The Moxen are a better comparison than Sol Ring because like Crypt they cost 0 (a 3-drop on T1 is more powerful than a 4-drop on T2 i would argue) and in the late game actually scale pretty bad and if you finished playing your opening lands and you top deck a moxen then its (lets put aside artifact shenanigan decks for just a moment) basically a basic land. Everyone in my playgroup agrees that Sol Ring is busted, even in EDH. My playgroup consists of everything from MtG vets (I've been playing since Legends, there's others from Ice Age and Mirage era), Modern Heros (starting in and around 8th) and new players (M13 and up).
I would posit this is more likely due to imbalances in deck power level than a single card (Ring or Crypt) breaking the game and "ruining things". They can print as many times as they want, but there is a only one original frame version. Remember that EDH is not vintage and you cant just use off-color moxen as mana rocks that tap for (1), they are mostly helpful in five-color decks because they give fixing. Upon looking at the prices today... it’s almost 180.. what the hell happened? The print run of of the original frame version is considered small enough to manipulate the market, and has probably been underpriced for a long time. Decks optimized to go for that turn 2 - 4 win need to challenged by decks built to stop the turn 2 - 4 win, typically by pulling the entire mana curve (esp with defensive spells) downwards closer to 0 - 2. Mana Crypt is fun to play against because it’s good at bringing a table together. While I agree with your third point and don't think that [[Mana Crypt]] shouldn't be banned, your first two arguments are actually thinly veiled counter-arguments. But I don't have ABU duals, Gaea's Cradle, Tabernacle, etc. There's a discussion going on on the Commander Theory tumbler starting here about whether or not Mana Crypt should be added to the ban list. Heads!” as you prepare to flip the coin. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Anyways. don't need to put some spin on it lol. It's not hard to answer, but it's annoying to force someone to answer it. Why ban them? Deadeye cards are powerful, but they require other crazy shit to be problematic, which introduces a lot more variance to the equation. I used to run Stoneforge Mystic when it was in standard in a WG equipment metalcraft deck. I would have bought it a couple months back. Own up to what you play. Is it a Deadeye or a Primordial? And if you get it on any other turn of the game has it really pushed you ahead that much? This is Reddit's hub for discussing speculating(2) and not for discussing speculating(1) about Magic: the Gathering cards.
New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. Primordial cards need the banhammer, as they suck by themselves, break those above rules, and due to this are basically auto-includes, no matter what else you're playing. 1. form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence. -Mana Crypt is in the spirit of EDH. This. Don't forget that about half of the restricted list is EDH legal. Now reshuffle and play again. It's not like you wont play chess because the queen costs $500; you play chess.
If you can't back up your argument, what you say is irrelevant. I mean, I have one and I love it.
That list would be way too long and I think banning a card for cost reasons isn't something they want or are going to do. I would actually like to hear arguments as to why Mana Crypt should stay legal but the Moxen should stay banned. EDH is a self-correcting format, the number of enemies you make provides a string limiting factor vs overpowered cards and plays. hermit druid doesn't even necessarily run crypt/ring, there's almost no colorless costs in the deck. Has a very low supply relative to other EDH staples. While that's partially correct, "cards that cost mana" is a lot larger of a category than "creatures that enjoy being blinked". A couple of months back I was debating whether I should buy [mana crypt] but thought that 100$ wasn’t worth an EDH staple. I’m surprised EMA boxes aren’t going for over 300, I thought they were selling for like 320 msrp, And I questioned myself on buying a 3rd for $60.... XD, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. They're more worried about things like Deadeye (who's also in the same deck and much more frightening) and Prophet of Kruphix (also in that deck).
Mana Crypt and Sol Ring are on the same ground, and I think it would be unfair to ban one and not the other. They'd probably laugh and ask if you were serious. The fact that Mana Crypt is such a huge threat that the owner becomes target #1 shows how strong it is. Just thoughts. Stuff like Alpha Shivan Dragon isn't RL but is worth more than all those combined. 2.) There is no reason not to have a single 1CMC or less mana rock in your hand at the start of the game considering that you can dig 21 cards by going down to 6 cards in hand, so getting to that 3rd turn Balefire Dragon or Hellkite Tyrant is fast and fun. I don't necessarily think Mana Crypt should be banned but when I read the post I see this, The card is so strong everyone has to focus you when you get it early if they don't want you to run away with the game, $150 is acceptable for a card you can shove in literally every deck for immense power, and does not serve as a barrier of entry into competitive EDH at all. Don’t get me wrong, 85-150 is stupid expensive, but it’s not unimaginable.
I got lucky last year and managed to get my hands on one for $100 in trade. So while there are cards that are more expensive like the ABUR duels or Goyf, at the very least those arent near auto-includes in nearly every deck ever. The only real reason to ban only Mana Crypt is because of the high cost, but it is surprisingly not on the Reserved List and could eventually see a reprint in a product that makes it more common that the Judge Promo release.
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